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Author Topic:   The Evolution of God (Before Genesis 1:1)
NOT JULIUS
Member (Idle past 2734 days)
Posts: 219
From: Rome
Joined: 11-29-2006


Message 1 of 13 (444215)
12-28-2007 3:57 PM


I propose to explain the beginning of God in the following theories.

1.No Beginning theory. Here is logical statement:
Premise (P1): Energy--e.g electrical, nuclear, etc--has no beginning, these have always existed(according to Science).

P2: Energy is another word for spirit ( or active force) in the Bible ( e.g Is 40:26, Gen 1:2 .) God is spirit as opposed to a physical being.

Conclusion: Therefore God has no beginning--just like all forms of energy.

2.The Evolution of God. In the beginning—when there was no time yet-- there were only all kinds of energy or forces. To name a few: electrical, magnetic, radio wave, x-rays, etc. Then by chance, these energies synthesized into a functional “mass of energy”. This “mass of energy” gradually EVOLVED until it had developed superior intelligence and was “personified”. Having developed this super intelligence and personification, He then created everything else in the universe.

Here is further elaboration on theory #2.
Scientists have attempted to trace life from the simple ( e.g one cell organism) to the more complex form. Why not start the other way around from the complex to the simple? This theory could have parallel--though a bit more complex--in the formation of complex black holes. Simple definition by Wikipedia says:

"A black hole is a region of space in which the gravitational field is so powerful that nothing can escape after having fallen past the event horizon. The name comes from the fact that even electromagnetic radiation (e.g. light) is unable to escape, rendering the interior invisible. However, black holes can be detected if they interact with matter outside the event horizon, for example by drawing in gas from an orbiting star. The gas spirals inward, heating up to very high temperatures and emitting large amounts of radiation in the process."

Why not a gravitational field so powerful that it absorbed all forces (e.g light, electromagnetic radiation, etc) but instead of a simply "holding" these forces this body gradually developed "intelligence", and "personification". "It" EVOLVED into a "He". Instead of merely "holding" these forces he can "project", "process", "synthesize" these to create all things seen and unseen.

While black holes can be detected if they interact with matter outside the event horizon, this "HE" can not be easily detected except by indirect inference through his creation.

Definition of Terms:

God means the Supreme Creator. According to the above 2 theories God alone EVOLVED the rest were created by Him. How did he create the rest ? Some by direct creation, some he allowed to evolve (in lesser degree) based on his previous creations.

Spirit = energy = active force according to Gen 1:2; Isaiah 40:26

Energy has many forms like electrical, magnetic, nuclear, radio waves, sound waves, etc.

Evolution is slow change that could result in an evolved object, body, or being that has function, self-regulation, built in systems, etc.

Personification means those qualities found in a person like capacity to experience all range of emotions like love, justice, mercy, anger, etc.

Creation is similar to an output which resulted from this formula
Input + process = output.

Edited by Great J, : clarity


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 12-29-2007 7:03 PM NOT JULIUS has responded

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 13 (444522)
12-29-2007 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NOT JULIUS
12-28-2007 3:57 PM


Not sure about this one yet.

Are you wanting this in a science thread or on the religious side.

If you want it on the science side, you need to provide some evidence in the OP, so they know where your ideas are coming from.

If you have a specific forum in mind, please let me know.

Please respond to this message when you want an admin to review your OP again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-28-2007 3:57 PM NOT JULIUS has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-29-2007 8:51 PM AdminPD has responded

NOT JULIUS
Member (Idle past 2734 days)
Posts: 219
From: Rome
Joined: 11-29-2006


Message 3 of 13 (444557)
12-29-2007 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
12-29-2007 7:03 PM


Hi,
Its between science and religion. Perhaps on Miscellaneous topic?

Great J


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 12-29-2007 7:03 PM AdminPD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 12-30-2007 5:40 AM NOT JULIUS has responded

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 13 (444648)
12-30-2007 5:40 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by NOT JULIUS
12-29-2007 8:51 PM


Could you give me a little taste of how you are going to explain your theories?
That might give me a better idea of what forum.
We don't really have a middle avenue.

Thanks


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-29-2007 8:51 PM NOT JULIUS has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-30-2007 9:17 PM AdminPD has responded

NOT JULIUS
Member (Idle past 2734 days)
Posts: 219
From: Rome
Joined: 11-29-2006


Message 5 of 13 (444788)
12-30-2007 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminPD
12-30-2007 5:40 AM


I suppose no. 1 is based on logic. No. 2 is based on hypothesis.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 12-30-2007 5:40 AM AdminPD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AdminPD, posted 12-31-2007 5:11 AM NOT JULIUS has responded

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 6 of 13 (444851)
12-31-2007 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by NOT JULIUS
12-30-2007 9:17 PM


Priliminary Explanation
I guess I'm not being clear.
I'd like to see a brief explanation with the evidence or reasoned argumentation for your theories.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-30-2007 9:17 PM NOT JULIUS has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 12:36 PM AdminPD has responded

NOT JULIUS
Member (Idle past 2734 days)
Posts: 219
From: Rome
Joined: 11-29-2006


Message 7 of 13 (444915)
12-31-2007 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AdminPD
12-31-2007 5:11 AM


Re: Priliminary Explanation
Hi, thanks for the question.

# 1 theory would be based on logic:
P1: Energy--e.g electrical, nuclear, etc--has no beginning, these have always been in existing (according to Science)
P2: Energy is another word for spirit ( or active) in the Bible ( e.g Is 40:26, Gen 1:2 ) God is spirit as opposed to a physical being.
Conclusion: Therefore God has no beginning--just like all forms of energy.

#2 theory. Scientists have attempted to trace life from the simple ( e.g one cell organism) to the more complex form. Why not start the other way around from the complex to the simple? By analogy, lets briefly discuss nature of blackholes. Simple definition by Wikipedia says:

"A black hole is a region of space in which the gravitational field is so powerful that nothing can escape after having fallen past the event horizon. The name comes from the fact that even electromagnetic radiation (e.g. light) is unable to escape, rendering the interior invisible. However, black holes can be detected if they interact with matter outside the event horizon, for example by drawing in gas from an orbiting star. The gas spirals inward, heating up to very high temperatures and emitting large amounts of radiation in the process."

Why not a gravitational field so powerful that it aborbed all forces (e.g light, electromagnetic radiation,etc) but instead of a simple "hold" on these forces this entity gradually developed "intelligence", and "personification". "It" EVOLVED into a "He". Intead of merely "holding" these forces he can "project", "process", "sythesize" these to create all things seen and unseen.

While blackholes can be detected if they interact with matter outside the event horizon--this "HE" can not easily detected except by indirect inference in that there are "intelligently processed or sythesize sytems" in the universe both living and not living.

Why not? Why put "blinders" on man's search. Again instead of simple to complex. Start with complex to simple.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by AdminPD, posted 12-31-2007 5:11 AM AdminPD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by AdminPD, posted 12-31-2007 2:07 PM NOT JULIUS has responded

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 8 of 13 (444942)
12-31-2007 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by NOT JULIUS
12-31-2007 12:36 PM


Re: Priliminary Explanation
Excellent, now incorporate that into your OP and I think we can go public. I'm still not sure where, but I'll figure it out by the time you finish the rewrite.

Let me know when you're done.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 12:36 PM NOT JULIUS has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 2:23 PM AdminPD has responded

NOT JULIUS
Member (Idle past 2734 days)
Posts: 219
From: Rome
Joined: 11-29-2006


Message 9 of 13 (444947)
12-31-2007 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by AdminPD
12-31-2007 2:07 PM


Re: Priliminary Explanation
Hi Admin
What is OP again? How do I incorporate this into my OP> Sorry I've been infrequent

Edited by Great J, : more clarity


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by AdminPD, posted 12-31-2007 2:07 PM AdminPD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by AdminPD, posted 12-31-2007 2:33 PM NOT JULIUS has responded

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 10 of 13 (444954)
12-31-2007 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by NOT JULIUS
12-31-2007 2:23 PM


Re: Priliminary Explanation
In your first message (opening post) click on the edit button at the bottom right of the post. This will allow you to edit what you have already written.

Then you can use the preview button to view how it will look and proof it for typos, clarity, and flow. Hit submit reply when you are happy with it.

PS: I'm going to put it in the Miscellaneous Topics in Creation/Evolution Forum.
That is a science forum, so evidence will be key. We don't really have a middle of the road spot. Hope that works for you.

Edited by AdminPD, : PS


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 2:23 PM NOT JULIUS has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 3:09 PM AdminPD has not yet responded
 Message 12 by NOT JULIUS, posted 12-31-2007 4:04 PM AdminPD has not yet responded

NOT JULIUS
Member (Idle past 2734 days)
Posts: 219
From: Rome
Joined: 11-29-2006


Message 11 of 13 (444963)
12-31-2007 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by AdminPD
12-31-2007 2:33 PM


Re: Priliminary Explanation
Ps hold on to the posting. I guess its better in "Social & Religious Issues".

thanks


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by AdminPD, posted 12-31-2007 2:33 PM AdminPD has not yet responded

  
NOT JULIUS
Member (Idle past 2734 days)
Posts: 219
From: Rome
Joined: 11-29-2006


Message 12 of 13 (444970)
12-31-2007 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by AdminPD
12-31-2007 2:33 PM


Re: Priliminary Explanation
I'm done. Ps post to Social / Religious issues.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by AdminPD, posted 12-31-2007 2:33 PM AdminPD has not yet responded

  
AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 13 (444995)
12-31-2007 6:31 PM


Thread copied to the The Evolution of God (Before Genesis 1:1) thread in the Theological Creationism and ID forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
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