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Author Topic:   Missing Matter
Son Goku
Member
Posts: 1150
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 91 of 104 (555836)
04-15-2010 3:27 PM


Difficulties with Gravity
I've mentioned renormalization in my last post. It is the art of making apparently infinite expressions in quantum field theory into finite expressions by taking into account that certain quantities get shifted.

In all of our theories today this works out. I'll explain the details of the theories of the Strong and Weak nuclear forces in another post, but first I'd like to continue a bit with Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) and discuss gravity a bit.

In QED there are really only four quantities that get shifted, one is the electron mass and another is the electron charge. (The other two are a bit abstract so I'll leave them). When you properly take these into account the whole theory becomes finite for all diagrams*.

The basic problem with gravity and the main technical reason behind the need for a new theory like String Theory e.t.c. is that this doesn't work for gravity. If you directly turn General Relativity into a quantum field theory (by using the quantising procedure I described in an earlier post) and then take into account the shifting of quantities, the theory is still infinite. Hence gravity does not appear to work as a quantum field theory, so we need some new ideas.

*Proving this is quite a task however and was only really rigorously proven in 1988, fourty years after Schwinger had done it for one loop.


  
Son Goku
Member
Posts: 1150
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 92 of 104 (555843)
04-15-2010 3:53 PM


The Weak Nuclear Force
Now we turn to the Weak Nuclear force, or as it is sometimes called quantum flavorodynamics.

The Weak Nuclear force is basically responsible for the vast majority of radioactive decay that we observe.
Unlike electromagnetism, which is communicated by the photon, a single massless particle, the Weak force is communicated by three massive particles, called W-, W+ and Z0. Exchanging, emitting or absorbing these causes a particle to change its "flavor" or species. So for example, if a down quark emits a W- it becomes an up quark.

This is how a neutron can decay, for example a neutron is made of one up quark and two down quarks:

udd

The down quarks spits out a W- and becomes a up:

uud + W-

And then the W- decays into an electron (e-) and a neutrino (v):

uud + e- + v

uud, is a proton, so in total we have gone from a neutron to a proton, electron and neutrino. The neutron has decayed.

Another strange thing about the Weak nuclear force is that it is chiral. This means that not every particle can feel or "see" the Weak force. Specifically if a particle is spinning one way (left) it can see the Weak nuclear force and if it is spinning the opposite way (right) it can't. However this is quantum mechanics so a particle is usually both left and right with different probabilities, but all the probabilities to decay come from the left probabilities.

Next the Strong Nuclear Force.


  
Wojciech
Junior Member (Idle past 3157 days)
Posts: 6
From: Россия
Joined: 10-06-2010


Message 93 of 104 (585139)
10-06-2010 3:47 AM


Dark Matter
I think the reason why the CERN has not found Dark Matter, is because it is not really matter at all as we think of matter in the conventional sense.

I will add some excerpts from Dark Energy http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/17/5/7
New evidence has confirmed that the expansion of the universe is accelerating under the influence of a gravitationally repulsive form of energy that makes up two-thirds of the cosmos. The existence of gravitationally repulsive dark energy would have dramatic consequences for fundamental physics. The most conservative suggestions are that the universe is filled with a uniform sea of quantum zero-point energy, or a condensate of new particles that have a mass that is 10-39 times smaller than that of the electron. Some researchers have also suggested changes to Einstein's general theory of relativity, such as a new long-range force that moderates the strength of gravity. But there are shortcomings with even the leading conservative proposals. For instance, the zero-point energy density would have to be precisely tuned to a value that is an unbelievable factor of 10120 below the theoretical prediction. The evidence for gravitationally repulsive dark energy is strong, but there are gaps in our knowledge.
Dark energy, or something like it, has made numerous appearances in cosmology.

Edited by VenomFangX, : Add original source of the article


Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Panda, posted 10-06-2010 5:42 AM Wojciech has responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1970 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 94 of 104 (585147)
10-06-2010 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Wojciech
10-06-2010 3:47 AM


Re: Dark Matter
VenomFangX writes:

New evidence has confirmed that the expansion of the universe is accelerating...[snip]


Forum rules:

6 Avoid lengthy cut-n-pastes. Introduce the point in your own words and provide a link to your source as a reference. If your source is not on-line you may contact the Site Administrator to have it made available on-line.

7 Never include material not your own without attribution to the original source.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Wojciech, posted 10-06-2010 3:47 AM Wojciech has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Wojciech, posted 10-06-2010 6:13 AM Panda has responded

  
Wojciech
Junior Member (Idle past 3157 days)
Posts: 6
From: Россия
Joined: 10-06-2010


Message 95 of 104 (585149)
10-06-2010 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Panda
10-06-2010 5:42 AM


Re: Dark Matter
I took that little snippet from what I wrote in another forum. Thank you, I will keep this in mind.

Edited by VenomFangX, : Check source of information. Modify mistake


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Panda, posted 10-06-2010 5:42 AM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Panda, posted 10-06-2010 8:41 AM Wojciech has responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1970 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 96 of 104 (585157)
10-06-2010 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Wojciech
10-06-2010 6:13 AM


Re: Dark Matter
VenomFangX writes:

I took that little snippet from what I wrote in another forum.

Here is an alternative link to the full document by Robert R. Caldwell "Dark Energy" (available without a fee or registration).

Edited by Panda, : Hopefully clarified the reason I posted the url.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Wojciech, posted 10-06-2010 6:13 AM Wojciech has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Wojciech, posted 10-19-2010 3:59 AM Panda has acknowledged this reply

  
Wojciech
Junior Member (Idle past 3157 days)
Posts: 6
From: Россия
Joined: 10-06-2010


Message 97 of 104 (585201)
10-06-2010 2:27 PM


thank you
Thank you but Ihad included that in my first post..see the edit.
I did take what I wrote from another place, but that was an error as I should have checked if I had taken some of it from another source.

Edited by VenomFangX, : clarification


    
Wojciech
Junior Member (Idle past 3157 days)
Posts: 6
From: Россия
Joined: 10-06-2010


Message 98 of 104 (587490)
10-19-2010 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Panda
10-06-2010 8:41 AM


Re: Dark Matter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Panda, posted 10-06-2010 8:41 AM Panda has acknowledged this reply

    
Reveal
Junior Member (Idle past 3157 days)
Posts: 3
From: Crestview, FL
Joined: 10-28-2010


Message 99 of 104 (588899)
10-28-2010 10:34 PM


Cosmology in the bible, written 3000 years ago
Speaking of dark matter, and why it is so mysterious, I found this interesting.

The universe is expanding. "Dark matter" the hand of God? We have to look at the bigger picture on a grand scale. Keep in mind, the bible is very figurative, yet comprehendable.

"Heavens" is what God calls the stars and galaxies; the cosmos.

"Who alone streches out the heavens And tramples down the waves of the sea?" -Job 9:8

"Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it;" -Isaiah 42:5

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;" -Isaiah 44:24

"I have made the earth, And created man on it. I-My hands-stretched out the heavens, And all their host I haven commanded." -Isaiah 45:12

"I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together."
-Isaiah 48:13

God is spirit, and is invisible:
"By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible." Hebrew 11:3

And if a man claimed these things, He would be called insane, and his works, his writing, would be destroyed. But the bible has survived 3000 years of wars, division, and turmoil and is now in over 390 languages because the True God can deliver His message to mankind. And there is no other book in the history of mankind with scriptures such as this, as old as this, and in this many languages.

The cosmos is God's playground
We cannot understand God, His thoughts are higher than ours, and His ways are higher than ours.

God bless you all

Edited by Reveal, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 10-28-2010 10:43 PM Reveal has responded
 Message 101 by subbie, posted 10-28-2010 10:44 PM Reveal has not yet responded
 Message 104 by frako, posted 10-29-2010 11:02 AM Reveal has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31274
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 100 of 104 (588902)
10-28-2010 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Reveal
10-28-2010 10:34 PM


Re: Cosmology in the bible, written 3000 years ago
Ah, Pensacola Christian College?

Course work?

Are you expected to actually discuss or just preach?

Do you really think any of those quotes explain anything about cosmology?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Reveal, posted 10-28-2010 10:34 PM Reveal has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Reveal, posted 10-28-2010 10:50 PM jar has responded

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 101 of 104 (588903)
10-28-2010 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Reveal
10-28-2010 10:34 PM


Re: Cosmology in the bible, written 3000 years ago
You will find that this website is divided into different fora. Some of those fora are designated as science fora. Posts in those fora are expected to present evidence to support their assertions. Biblical passages are not scientific evidence.

It would be to your advantage to keep those differences in mind. Posters who are unable to comply with the different criteria for the different fora will find themselves getting unwanted attention and sanctions from the administrative staff.

Your message is in a science forum. It consists of a few sentences demonstrating that you know nothing about the topic, then a raft of bible quotes. This is unacceptable in a science forum.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Reveal, posted 10-28-2010 10:34 PM Reveal has not yet responded

  
Reveal
Junior Member (Idle past 3157 days)
Posts: 3
From: Crestview, FL
Joined: 10-28-2010


Message 102 of 104 (588905)
10-28-2010 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by jar
10-28-2010 10:43 PM


Re: Cosmology in the bible, written 3000 years ago
Im saying that, the universe is being told that its expanding 3000 years ago, when has only recently been discovered to be expanding.

And there is a lot more science in the bible than people think.

What Im saying is that there is a lot of wisdom in the bible

And I apologize for posting in the wrong section

Edited by Reveal, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 10-28-2010 10:43 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 10-28-2010 10:52 PM Reveal has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31274
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 103 of 104 (588907)
10-28-2010 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Reveal
10-28-2010 10:50 PM


Re: Cosmology in the bible, written 3000 years ago
I do not question the assertion that there is wisdom in the Bible, but nothing you posted is science.

And I notice you did not answer the questions I asked.

Ah, Pensacola Christian College?

Course work?

Are you expected to actually discuss or just preach?

Do you really think any of those quotes explain anything about cosmology?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Reveal, posted 10-28-2010 10:50 PM Reveal has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 104 of 104 (588962)
10-29-2010 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Reveal
10-28-2010 10:34 PM


Re: Cosmology in the bible, written 3000 years ago
reveal shure and somwhere in that book he says the moon and stars are lights, the earth has 4 corrners ......
This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Reveal, posted 10-28-2010 10:34 PM Reveal has not yet responded

    
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