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Author Topic:   Why, if god limited man's life to 120 years, did people live longer?
cjh7583
Junior Member (Idle past 3698 days)
Posts: 2
Joined: 05-05-2009


Message 166 of 230 (507573)
05-06-2009 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by rcmemphis
05-06-2009 11:48 AM


Regardless of who said what or how educated or uneducated they may have been on this subject, my point is simply to bring to light the fact that doubt can be justified on either side of the argument. It is possible that a mistake could have been written in the text because the infallibility of the Bible cannot be scientifically proven.

However, it is also possible, on the flip side, that there could be another meaning to the text, whatever it may be, that would allow it to be true. Any one person can establish doubt about a statement or event, but without proving it true or false, you can only make interpretations.

I don't pretend to be an expert in science or religion. If theory or theology are not the words you prefer, then use your own. You should still be able to understand my point of view.

Unfortunately, opinions will be the closest things to truths on this subject. This is my opinion, you don't have to agree, but that doesn't make me or anyone else wrong...or right.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Blank lines.


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ochaye
Member (Idle past 3497 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 167 of 230 (507581)
05-06-2009 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by rcmemphis
05-06-2009 11:48 AM


Here is a translation of Genesis 2:1-6:

Now it came about that men began to multiply over the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them. These sons of God saw that girls were beautiful, and they took them as wives as they chose. So then the Lord said, "My Spirit will not contend with man indefinitely, because in his waywardness he is corrupt. He has a hundred and twenty more years remaining." Arrogant men were on the earth in those days - and also afterwards - when these sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the tyrants of old, men of reputation. The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.


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IchiBan
Member (Idle past 3195 days)
Posts: 88
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 168 of 230 (508288)
05-12-2009 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Coyote
05-05-2009 10:36 PM


Re: Possible Limits On Human Life-span?
There you go with Heinlein again. And based on your standards we cant trust anything you say either, seeing as your works and credentials are hidden away to the greater public.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 3497 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 169 of 230 (508361)
05-12-2009 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by IchiBan
05-12-2009 1:46 AM


Re: Possible Limits On Human Life-span?
To whom is #168 directed?
This message is a reply to:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2447 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 170 of 230 (508366)
05-12-2009 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Theodoric
05-05-2009 11:39 PM


Re: Possible Limits On Human Life-span?
Thoedoric writes:

I have not been unable to find this quote anywhere also. I will be one of Coyote's "we". I am quite capable of researching things like this. If it exists on the internet, or as rightwingers like to call it, the "tubes", I can find it.

I agree & will also be one of the "we."


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6574
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 171 of 230 (508383)
05-13-2009 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by bluescat48
05-12-2009 6:59 PM


Re: Possible Limits On Human Life-span?
So we can be confident that the original "quote" is made up. I notice the original poster never offered any backup.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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nick4693
Junior Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 172 of 230 (513011)
06-23-2009 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by doctrbill
12-05-2002 10:07 PM


Various Bible translations
DB replied to Stickman: You didn't mention which translation you were quoting; and that, my friend, can make all the difference in the world. Check out these two alternatives:

"Then the LORD said, My Spirit shall not forever remain in man since he has gone astray; he is flesh, I will allow him another one hundred and twenty years." Modern Language Bible (formerly known as The Berkeley Version)

"Then Jehovah said, 'My Spirit must not forever be disgraced in man, wholly evil as he is. I will give him 120 years to mend his ways.'" Living Bible

I take acception to DB's reply concerning translations of "God's" limit placed upon man's lifespan.
The second quote above is a bit of a stretch from the first and others, and seriously implies interpolation.
In other words, DB's claim suggests that the statement 120 years is meaningless because, being determined by each person's age, "another 120 years" means various age limits to different people.
I can understand minor mistakes in translation, but some Bibles are so wide of the mark, it is patently clear they are simply proselytizing a preconceived agenda devoid of logic and reason.
The fact remains that many have survived the 120 barrier, both biblical characters and actual people.
Not that I believe anything in the Bible, other than a few correct geographical locations and a few reigns.
Given the errors, contradictions, falsities and downright wrong information contained in the Bible (supposedly inspired by a god), it is nothing less than hogwash, really, promulgated for the sole purpose of CONTROL!


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 1022 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 173 of 230 (513013)
06-23-2009 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by nick4693
06-23-2009 8:50 PM


Re: Various Bible translations
Welcome to the Forum, Nick.

nick4693 writes:

I take acception to DB's reply concerning translations of "God's" limit placed upon man's lifespan.
...
In other words, DB's claim suggests that the statement 120 years is meaningless because, being determined by each person's age, "another 120 years" means various age limits to different people.

It can be confusing, early in the game, when one reads so many posts from so many people and then tries to recall who said what; BUT - I don't know how you got all that from what I wrote.

doctrbill writes:

The context of this statement is the story of Noah's Flood. Thus, many take it to be a long term warning of genocide to come.

This could be translated - "120 days," but that is another story.

nick4693 writes:

I can understand minor mistakes in translation, but some Bibles are so wide of the mark, it is patently clear they are simply proselytizing a preconceived agenda devoid of logic and reason.

I would agree, in essence, although I think there is always a reason, even if the reason is that they are unreasonable. It is more often likely, I think, that they work to support a sectarian tradition, foster a different agenda, or please their target audience/market.

The fact remains that many have survived the 120 barrier, both biblical characters and actual people.
Not that I believe anything in the Bible, other than a few correct geographical locations and a few reigns.
Given the errors, contradictions, falsities and downright wrong information contained in the Bible (supposedly inspired by a god), it is nothing less than hogwash, really, promulgated for the sole purpose of CONTROL!

I would, in general, agree with everything you have said. On the other hand, I find the Bible itself to be an OK book. That's more than I can say for many of its' translators and interpreters. :D

And again: Welcome to the Forum.


Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nick4693
Junior Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 174 of 230 (513017)
06-24-2009 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by doctrbill
06-23-2009 10:09 PM


Re: Various Bible translations
To DB;

Many thanks for the warm welcome!

As I said, and I'm sure that many are aware of this, there are many interpolations contained in the Bible entered by overzealous scribes with an agenda, that one is left wondering what the original documents actually stated.

But, I am an avowed unbeliever, especially since that horrific tsunami in SE Asia on December 26, 2004 -- my epiphany -- which opened my eyes, and I came out of the closet of doubt and made a firm stand.

Up until that time, I had been a fence-straddler. No more!

I seriously studied and researched religion -- mainly christianity, because I was born into a christian family -- reading the Bible from cover-to-cover, though I cannot quote chapter and verse on every subject it contains. My conclusion was that ALL religions, bar none, are simply cults. Actually, there is one exception -- Islam, which is an ideology, and more closely resembles a terrorist organization, which is not surprising, given its start as one back around 610 CE.
Now, I, too, have an agenda, and proselytize against religion -- not just christianity -- every chance I get.

Of one thing I am sure -- there are a lot of gullible people out there, who will accept and believe anything if it makes them feel good.

There are so many anomalies in the Bible that quoting from it, as christians are wont to do, simply places them in a very weakened position.

The 120-year subject, of course, is really neither here nor there, given the other more important blatant errors contained within its pages, that can be used to discredit this spurious compendium.
Thanks again!

Nick

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Blank lines.


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nick4693
Junior Member (Idle past 3649 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 175 of 230 (513019)
06-24-2009 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by doctrbill
06-23-2009 10:09 PM


Re: Various Bible translations
DB;

Don't know how I came to write the word "acception" instead of "exception" in my posting. Apologies!
Must have been one of those overzealous scribes putting in his two cents' worth.

Nick


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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 1022 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 176 of 230 (513037)
06-24-2009 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by nick4693
06-24-2009 1:20 AM


Re: Various Bible translations
nick4693 writes:

The 120-year subject, of course, is really neither here nor there, given the other more important blatant errors contained within its pages, that can be used to discredit this spurious compendium.

There are, as you say, blatant errors contained in the Bible but that is to be expected of a collection going back to antiquity. What is more disturbing, I think, are the many goofy interpretations which fail to consider an alternative understanding, like the case of Genesis 6:3.

The Geneva Bible, published in 1568, contains a footnote which purports to explain the "120 years" as

quote:
"Which time span God gave man to repent before he would destroy the earth,"

That, I think, is a better interpretation, but I doubt it nonetheless because it would involve several generations of people.

A better translation, I think, would be "120 days," i.e. four (4) months. About the same amount of time which George "God speaks through me" Bush gave the Iraqis (in the same valley, BTW) to fish-or-cut-bait.

The key here involves translation of the Hebrew word snh {H8132}: to change, (including: to change one's clothing) or, repeat; as in repeat an action.

This word is also translated "sleep," thus, might well be understood to mean: "cycle" (as in sleep cycle) and thus might be understood as a change of day; - i.e "120 cycles" rather than "120 years." Even if it means a change of month, which I believe it does in Genesis 5, it would still amount to only "10 years" not "120 years." But I think 10 years is too much. A lot can happen in 10 years!

I prefer "120 days" because I think four months is a reasonable amount of time to give your enemy to change his ways before you take action to destroy him (as Bush did to Saddam).

I think that if the story were to read: "I'm giving you 120 days to change your ways," then it would be a perfectly normal and ultimately understandable story element which is not only quasi-scientific (by linguistic analysis) but also conforms to common sense, and answers to real life experience.

The Bible is just a book. The problem is people who "believe in" the Bible as if it were God incarnate, their only connection to the divine. And yes, it is true that modern translations of the Bible often bear little resemblance to the ancient script.

Bible Champion. :D


Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4659
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 177 of 230 (513050)
06-24-2009 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by doctrbill
12-05-2002 10:07 PM


You make a good point. Over the years, I have went through personal turmoil because atheists pick out verses, turn them on God, I believed them to be right, and got depressed, only to find out yonks later, that that's not what the scripture meant at all!!

A good silly example is Cain's wife.

Untill there's a bible study, including Hebrew or Greek interpretations, I rarely treat these claims as having credence. Especially when we hear such things as "if God is all-loving".

:rolleyes:.

Does God love sin. :rolleyes:

I hate silly hypotheticals aswell. a rock too....yawn.......heavy......snore......


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doctrbill
Member (Idle past 1022 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 178 of 230 (513070)
06-24-2009 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by mike the wiz
06-24-2009 1:42 PM


mike the wiz writes:

A good silly example is Cain's wife.

What about Cain's wife?

I'd be interested to know your take on that.

Sincerely,


Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
This message is a reply to:
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 3497 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 179 of 230 (513136)
06-25-2009 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by doctrbill
06-24-2009 3:13 PM


Everyone is Adam or Eve. Everyone is Cain or Abel.
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5805
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 180 of 230 (513168)
06-25-2009 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by doctrbill
06-24-2009 3:13 PM


Cain's been a naughty boy
What about Cain's wife?

The only possible way to get around the obvious problem, while still adhering to the "inerrancy" of it, is to come to the inescapable conclusion that Cain was doing the hanky panky with his sister.

I'd love to hear any and all readers coming up with an alternative conclusion. That ought to be fun watching the squirming and wriggling.


"The problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money." --Margaret Thatcher--
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